Interview with Steven Pifer, USA Ambassador to Ukraine (1998-2000)

UAPost journalists - Svitlana Ivanyshyn-Ugryna and Maria Ivanus took the phone interview with Steven Pifer, USA Ambassador to Ukraine (1998-2000), Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution's Center on the United States and Europe  in the midst of negotiations around Ukraine on the highest political level.

UApost:  Our main interest in today’s interview is Obama – Merkel meeting. What is your opinion about it, ambassador Pifer and what can be expected of this event?

S.P: Well, it is a good opportunity for Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel  and President Obama to talk about the situation in Ukraine and how  we move to negotiated  diplomatic solution. And in that regard, people are looking very carefully at the planned meeting on Wednesday to be held in Minsk  that will involve  chancellor  Merkel ,president Olland of France, President Poroshenko and president Putin. The main question remains if it will produce some kind of agreement that will help to  seize fire and have a peace talk.  Personally , I tend to be very skeptical about it, since so far Russians has shown very little desire to negotiate. But I would like to be  pleasantly surprised .

UAPost :Do you think that today’s meeting was, in a way, a preparation for the one to be held in Minsk?

S.P: No. The meeting between President Obama and Chancellor Merkel has been  planned for some time. But I think it came at the very good time, since today President Obama will have a chance to talk to Chancellor Merkel about where the next meeting might go and how the West might respond if the agreement is not reached. 

UAPost: What do you think about the fact that President Obama still has not made his final decision about supplying military aid to Ukraine?

S.P: The time has come to significantly increase military support for Ukraine, including defense arms anti tank missiles. Even though Obama has not made his final decision, he is clearly considering it. So, I guess, we should wait and see what happens on Wednesday. If the negotiations are not successful , the pressure on Washington will increase to provide the military aid for Ukraine.

UAPOST: As we are talking about this diplomatic negotiations , there is a very real war in Ukraine, where people are dying every day. Maybe we are wasting our time on these meetings, maybe it’s time for more radical actions? 

S.P.  Now it’s a matter of two days till Wednesday. And as I said, if the meeting is not proving to be effective and Putin is not willing to negotiate, then the pressure will be on Obama to provide military aid for Ukraine. It’s important , because Angela Merkel made it very clear that she does not support  the idea of military involvement in this conflict and believes that doing so  will only escalade it. But then again, she said that despite some disagreements on this matter, Europe and the United States should stand together when it comes to resolving the conflict.

UAPost.  Is it safe to assume that Angela Merkel is now more on Ukrainian side in this negotiations?

S.P: No, I would not say that.  She is still offering to resolve it diplomatically .

UAPOST.  As you might remember, we had bad experience with this peace agreements before. And as Otto von Bismarck: “An agreement with Russia is not worth the paper it is written on” .  The Minsk Agreement signed in September did not work, the shooting never stopped on the Russian side.

S.P. That is why I am skeptical of Russians too, since they did not implement any ways to seize the fire in Eastern Ukraine as it was suggested during Minsk agreement in September 2014.

UA Post.: Some people say that the world is on the merge of another world war. Especially  if we take to the account that one of the country involved has large nuclear weapon arsenal. What is your opinion about that?

S.P: I think we are not anywhere near that point. When we were in Ukraine a month ago, nobody asked us to send American troops there – we would not support that. We are talking about defense arms and military equipment for the Ukrainian army. Also, I would be less concerned about the escalation questions , because if the Russians want to escalade they would have to make it look difficult, without more open involvement. And it means more costly operations and more visible presence on Ukrainian territory , which does not go along with Mr.Putin’s story. For more than 8 months he keeps saying that there no Russian soldiers in Ukraine.

UA Post: But it seems to me that the Russians don’t care about that. We all saw Lavrov being laughed at,  during the Munich meeting. And at this point even if Putin himself was caught somewhere in Eastern Ukraine – they would not bother with explanations.   My next question would be about your perception of the situation in Ukraine as an American. What do  Americans think about the  struggle of Ukrainian people?

S.P: I think there is a great deal of sympathy and empathy in the US about Russian-Ukrainian conflict.  Now it is more often seen as it should  be, meaning that it’s not  just a separatists fighting in Eastern Ukraine , but  it’s Russia- Ukraine conflict, in which Russian troops are invading Ukraine.

UA POST:  There is an opinion among Americans about volunteer battalions fighting in Ukraine that they are formed of outlaws , even though Ukrainians see them as true patriots defending their country. What is your opinion about that?

P.S.:  I believe  that the volunteer battalions should be integrated into Ukrainian military and National Guard. It was pretty clear from what we heard in Ukraine that the coordination between the regular army and the military battalions is not as good as it should be.  That it’s a bad way to conduct a military operation. Certainly , I don’t think it’s healthy for the Ukrainian democracy to have large numbers of private armies  running around. 

UAPost:  That’s understandable. But considering the low level of trust people have now towards Army Generals , many of whom are secretly working for the Russian Government ( you might have read about it in New York Times)…

P.S.I think that’s the problem, but I also think that  it’s not the way to conduct a major military operations. Having  thirty five independent  military battalions where  each of them is doing their own thing is not the way of doing it successfully. And there is a growing concern, to say frankly, about some of the things this battalions have reportedly done. So it would be wise  to recommend as a condition for getting a military support for Ukrainian government to come up with a plan on regrouping this independent battalions in Ukrainian armed forces.

UAPost: Thank you for your time, Mr Pifer and your expressed opinion on this very important for the Ukrainian community worldwide matter. We will stay in touch let’s see what happens after Wednesday meeting.

S.P. Definitely. Thank you.

Interview is available in Ukrainian